Gretchen Jude
From: <jessicarajko@wayne.edu>Subject: Provocation Discussion - May 3rd, 1:00-1:30pm EST
Date: April 27, 2021 at 1:03:45 PM GMT-4
To: Frederic Bevilacqua <frederic.bevilacqua@ircam.fr>, "javier.jaimovich@uchile.cl" <javier.jaimovich@uchile.cl>, "fmorand@u.uchile.cl" <fmorand@u.uchile.cl>, Sha Xin Wei <shaxinwei@gmail.com>, Teoma Naccarato <teomajn@gmail.com>, John MacCallum <john.m@ccallum.com>
Greetings!
First, thank you again for carving time out of your schedule to join us in conversation. The following information details how we’ll move through our discussion and how you can prepare.
Discussion Details and Structure: The plan is to record and share a series of, 30-minute discussions between ‘provocateurs’---those who submitted provocations back in 2018 in response to the question: “What escapes computation in interactive performance?” Meetings will be hosted and recorded on Zoom (link provided in this meeting request). All three of the project facilitators (Teoma, John, and Jessica) will be present during the conversation to host and hold space. Our aim is to keep the discussion low-key, conversational, and open-ended. We are not trying to reach some sort of summary conclusion or solution within 30 minutes. Rather, we see these discussions as another way in which we continue the rich dialogue put forth in the provocations and currently buzzing on our SloMoCo Discord channel. To give you a sense of how we’ll structure the 30 minutes, here is a flexible outline:
Provocation Discussion
- Brief introduction by facilitators and sharing of provocations by provocateurs - 10 min (2-3 min per provocation)
- Provocateurs ask each other questions and discuss - 10 minutes
- Facilitators join in conversation - 10 minutes
For sharing your provocation, you can read or summarise, and comment on your current thinking about it. A link to your provocation will be posted alongside the video of the discussion.
Please feel free to join us 5 - 10 minutes early if you wish. We won’t start recording until everyone is settled in, but we also want to be respectful of your time and keep the entire session as close to 30 minutes as possible.
Preparation: All we need you to do in advance is i) revisit your own provocation, and those of the other two provocateurs; and ii) bring one question for each other person, based on their provocation. The purpose for this discussion is to collectively read your three provocations through one another, exploring connections and generative tension in perspectives.
Here are links to the three provocations for your session:
• Fran & Javier:https://provocations.online/whatescapescomputation/jaimovitch-morand/
• Fred:https://provocations.online/whatescapescomputation/bevilacqua/
• Xin Wei: https://provocations.online/whatescapescomputation/xin-wei/
Gretchen Jude
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Tensors are totally useful. However these particular references seem difficult and rather specialized. There must be some elementary reference or cheat sheet on tensors for classical theory of rigid body motion. The classic works on mechanics are by Lagrange and Hamilton.
Adrian Freed <adrian@cnmat.berkeley.edu>
To: Vangelis L <vl_artcode@yahoo.com>, John MacCallum <john.m@ccallum.com>
Cc: Sha Xin Wei <xinwei.sha@concordia.ca>
Date: 2013-07-28, at 9:50 PM
I remember you mentioned finding some documentation that suggested that computing the velocity from successive kinect frames actually computes the velocity at the time between the frames and that they propose to come velocity by skipping a frame so that the midpoint velocity corresponds to a time of the isochronous frame rate.
Those ideas represent very course approximations to the correct way of doing this for rigid body motion, the basis of which is described in the attached paper.Almost :) that information was coming from the biomechanical side of things and was agnostic of the frame types. Since in biomechanics they are concerned of matching specific values to exact visual or other frame representations of movement, they propose to compute velocity every third frame (1st to 3rd) since the actual value of velocity that is calculated represents the 2nd frame and should be attached as information there.Do they propose a parabolic interpolation? In which space?
What I thing you are trying to avoid is a pre-defined space where the velocity calculation takes place. And that is related to what I got about Tensors so far... Tensors are bundles of vectors representing various desirable data from a point which position can be described by a given zero 0 in a Cartesian space. Each Tensor carries the bundle but it does not care about its Cartesian representation or the one to which it is compared to. Calculations between Tensors can be performed regardless of spatial representation and we can translate all data to any given Cartesian coordinate system on demand... is that any close?? In any case I think that the way a formula is applied to accurately measure f.i. velocity is related to how a device gathers the rotation data at the first place so that we connect to its most accurate representation. The biquaternion formula at the paper begins the example using the pitch, yow and roll information (latitude, longitude, roll over the z axis) and the maximum length of the working space which is confusing.Confusing ndeed.
How does this formula translates in practice, and if we apply this method do we need quaternions of two frames (or three frames according to the bio-mechanical scientists) in order to calculate the bi-quat and the velocity vector or the 4x4 rotation matrix? How are these calculated in Kicent? Does it matter?Yes it matters but we are also trying to get the machinery in place to go beyond Kinect and also solve these POV issues.
From: Adrian Freed <adrian@cnmat.berkeley.edu>
To: Vangelis L <vl_artcode@yahoo.com>, John MacCallum <john.m@ccallum.com>
Cc: Sha Xin Wei <shaxinwei@gmail.com>, Andy W.Schmeder <andy@cnmat.berkeley.edu>
Now we have the dot product, cross product, velocity and acceleration formulae in "o."
Continuum mechanics is a branch of mechanics that deals with the analysis of the kinematics and the mechanical behavior of materials modeled as a continuous mass rather than as discrete particles. The French mathematician Augustin-Louis Cauchy was the first to formulate such models in the 19th century, but research in the area continues today.
Modeling an object as a continuum assumes that the substance of the object completely fills the space it occupies. Modeling objects in this way ignores the fact that matter is made of atoms, and so is not continuous; however, on length scales much greater than that of inter-atomic distances, such models are highly accurate. Fundamental physical laws such as the conservation of mass, the conservation of momentum, and the conservation of energy may be applied to such models to derive differential equations describing the behavior of such objects, and some information about the particular material studied is added through a constitutive relation.
Continuum mechanics deals with physical properties of solids and fluids which are independent of any particular coordinate system in which they are observed. These physical properties are then represented by tensors, which are mathematical objects that have the required property of being independent of coordinate system. These tensors can be expressed in coordinate systems for computational convenience.
and exterior algebra which we need to do vector fields for orientation correlation.a good intro. to quaternions which along the way explains Hamilton's mistake and why we will be working with Euler/Rodrigues formulations.
"Hamilton, Rodrigues, and the Quaternion Scandal"
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Tha attached paper has an interesting idea at the end: a dualquat harmonic oscillator which can describe
OK, my last word (today) on this:
So, it is not obvious how to do the Euler, Lagrange equations with dual quaternions which we would need for the velocity acceleration, energy etc.
No worries though: it is tackled in the attached paper.
I added another paper to show off the range of interesting problems tackled with dual quaternions. We can also do physics engines, collision detection etc. rather easily.
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From: Adrian Freed <adrian@cnmat.berkeley.edu>
Date: 25 July, 2013 6:36:14 PM PDT
To: John MacCallum <john.m@ccallum.com>, Vangelis L <vl_artcode@yahoo.com>
Cc: Sha Xin Wei <shaxinwei@gmail.com>
Clifford's original paper is quite readable
Begin forwarded message:
From: Adrian Freed <adrian@cnmat.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: more computations with movement salience
Date: 25 July, 2013 4:01:52 PM PDT
To: John MacCallum <john.m@ccallum.com>
Cc: Sha Xin Wei <shaxinwei@gmail.com>, "Andy W.Schmeder" <andy@cnmat.berkeley.edu>, Vangelis L <vl_artcode@yahoo.com>
John,
As I suspected, with the right algebra built into "o.", we can do all these movement things
we are trying to fudge with elementary stuff more compactly and richly.
I believe the best choice is the dual quaternion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_quaternion
]]>From: Adrian Freed <adrian@cnmat.berkeley.edu>
Subject: clustering on guass maps for dance etc.
Date: 1 July, 2013 9:55:10 AM PDT
To: John MacCallum <john@cnmat.berkeley.edu>
Cc: Sha Xin Wei <shaxinwei@gmail.com>, Andrew Schmeder <andy@enchroma.com>, Rama Gottfried <rama.gottfried@gmail.com>
I have an intuition fueled by a half understanding developed over a drink with Xin Wei that could pan
out into something…
With that disclaimer, the idea is to compute correlations betweens orientations of body parts of dancers (a dancer and between
dancers). The first step is to project the orientation vectors onto a sphere (i.e. a gauss map). Then we do cluster analyses on this.
I am not sure how this is done adapting classical k-means things - I guess you can just replace the usual coordinate discretization with a graph. I wonder if one should go straight for a spherical harmonic representation so as to be able to characterize shapes? Of particular interest would be to compute the autocorrelation to identify periodicities in orientation change. I am not good enough
to be sure but I suspect the Wiener–Khinchin theorem holds so these periodicities can be estimated efficiently with FFT's. While I am wildly speculating here it would be nice to compute the linking number of pairs of paths traced by the body closed in some
ingenious way based on the aformentioned periodicities. This would capture braid structures that occur if you imagine
hands and feet with ribbons tied to them or braid structures in patterned dance (e.g. Ceili Dance).
I will stop these speculations here as it is time to ignore me and plunge into the literature. I have attached something, John,
that addresses your interest in using kurtosis of bodliy motion to drive migrators. This paper came up when I searched for "gauss map cluster" so we should be able to use this as a seed to harvest related papers. What is interesting about this paper is they don't construct a surface description so we can use it perhaps on the depth map data from Kinect.
I am trying to drag Andy into this partly to help us avoid some silly false leads but also because I suspect there is something interesting here for aerial dance which gives more orientation freedom than landed dance.
p.s. There is something deeply silly about what I am suggesting (and philosophically disturbing from Xin Wei's point of view) if we use Kinect skeletonization data. With enough crunch you can do better
than kinect by deriving the kinematics from the imager data using local invariance structure (as hinted in the attached paper). For testing on our slow laptops and getting our feet wet the Kinect is a handy starting point though.
p.p.s. My puzzling over the right arithmetic to use for those quality measures that the kinect software gives us (0, 0.5, 1.0)
lead me to indicator functions which are usually 0 or 1 so as to bridge set membership or other predicates to number. They are however generalized to be continuous in fuzzy set theory which presumably has a lot more to say about how we should operate with them.
I am particularly interested now in how to leverage the dynamics of such functions.
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Principles for Movement-Based Research
Sha Xin Wei
Canada Research Chair, Critical studies of media arts and sciences / Director Topological Media Lab
Concordia Montreal
Basic Question: How do we make sense of our surroundings and each other via corporeal movement: walking, gesturing, playing games and sports, dancing?
Approach: The key is that we don't just sit and talk about it, or watch videos of someone else doing the action. Participants don't just think about movement, we think in movement. This requires fresh ways to articulate time-based media.Principles:(1) Live, in-person, first-person experience, not about spectators far away from or beyond arms-reach of the action.(2) Actors are spectators, spectators are actors.(3) Collective as well as solo movement.(4) How making sense of our surroundings and each other depends on media in movement: varying fields of lighting, sound, sensate and active materials / textiles, and objects: cloth, toys, furniture, and so forth. Thus we are assembling our large-scale, motion / gesture - modulated, rich media environment as a ‘kinetoscope’ focussing on the body in spontaneous, creative, and thoughtful movement. (5) Primarily about everyday people in everyday movement,